The Deutschland Class Revolution

This is a gathering together of the other threads, and of all the drawings to one place. (New RN drawing added)

The Instigator of all the problems:

The Germans stole a march on the rest of the world with the production of the Deutschland class Armoured Ships, dubbed Pocket Battleships. While the reality was not quite as good as the hyperbole surrounding them, they were still a force to be reckoned with. The armament of 6x11", 8x5.9", 6x3.5/4.1" smaller AA, torpedoes and aircraft made the Treaty cruisers look bad in comparrison. It was the range and speed that made them such a thorn in the side of the designers of other nations. All of the Allied nations had to look with dismay at their fleets when searching for ships that could catch and dispatch the Deutschlands. While only claiming 26-27 knots, the three ships reguarly made 28-29 knots in service.

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This meant that in the real world timeline only the seven battlecruisers still in existence could catch them with enough firepower to be able to sink them one-on-one. Even in my AU worlds the fast battleships may be able to keep up with the Deutschlands but they would be reliant on those ships being slowed so that overwhelming firepower could be brought to bear. The answer to the search problem would be the aircraft carrier but there were never enough of those to be able to spare them on raider searches. One in the North Atlantic and one in the South Atlantic backed by heavy surface ships was all that could be made available. The main search vessels were the patrol cruisers which while one could not sink a Deutschland, three or four together could damage and slow them till the battlefleet could make contact and finish the job. What made it difficuilt for the USN and RN, who were most affected, was that they already had all the Battleship numbers used up under the various treaties. To build 'answers' to the Deutschlands would take the removal of some of the oldest ships to make space available for ships that could hunt down the Deutschlands.

So what to do? Easy, throw away the treatys. The following are drawings of ships that go with 'answers' to the Deutschlands.

The Battlecruiser debate:

In the real world the RN has the three battlecruisers Hood, Renown and Repulse any of which would blow away a Deutschland. But only three ships. The chances of any of those three ships intercepting one of the Deutschlands in the open sea is very low. In my Fisherless RN the Admiralty is even worse off as they only have the Tiger that is fast enough to catch and dispatch a Deutschland. Clearly something extra was required to provide the 'killer' in the hunter killer groups that would be needed to run down and catch the German raiders. The 1930 Lillicrap design was taken as the basis for at least two more battlecruisers to be built to act as raider killers. The 13.5" gun with the heavy 1400lb shell was chosen in a new turret with better elevation giving better range and giving faster firing.
The ships were just too early for dual purpose weaponry and were completed with the single 4.7" and twin 6".

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USN Entry

When the USN looked at its inventory it had.... nothing that could take on the so called pocket battleships. The USN felt it would require four cruisers with 6" and 8" guns to damage one of the PB's sufficiently for something larger to catch and finish off the job. The number of 'hunting' groups for the North and South Atlantic was estimated at six per ocean to successfully run down and catch one raider. This was unacceptable to the USN. (To do this properly I think the WNT/LNT's need to have a bit of leeway otherwise this ship never gets built.)

To get the new ship through Congress it was listed as an experimental anti-raider cruiser. Other details than that were kept very obscure. The ship was to be a 26,000 ton large cruiser. The ship and armament were to be built and supplied by Bethlehem Steel. At the end of WW1 Bethlehems had had returned to them three twin 14" turrets and guns that had been made available to the RN from an order for the Greek BB Salamis. The guns and turrets had been kept as spares for the New York and Oklahoma classes, both of which mounted twin 14" turrets. Using these three turrets meant that no new weapon system would need to be added to the inventory and the guns firepower would outgun a PB quite handily. The basic New Orleans class heavy cruiser design was enlarged considerably to take the twin 14". Length went out to 674 feet while the breadth increased to 88 feet. The ship required a 125,000shp propulsion system to raise a speed of 30 knots. Armour was made to defeat the German 11", with 10" of side armour and 3.5" of deck armour. Only one of these 'experimental' cruisers could be completed in this form by which time the USN felt that the various treaties would have expired and a new class could be built using the experience with the Alaska as the basis for the new ships.

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French entry

The French Navy was allowed by treaty to build at least two 35,000 ton battleships. They would be within their rights to arm those ships with 16" guns. So they did.

The news out of Germany that the Reichsmarine was building new ships armed with anything from 11"-15" guns sent tremors through the French Navy high command. Looking at the ships in the FAN that could take on these new ships, came down to the three Lorraine type battleships. If they could catch these new German ships. What was needed was a new fast battleship built to the limits of the Washington Treaty. The FAN surmised that the most they might be facing was a ship armed with four 15" with a speed of 25 knots. To counter that the new ships should be armed with eight 16" guns, a 13" armoured belt with 6" of deck armour, and a speed of 28 knots. The FAN designers found that this was unattainable on 35,000 tons, so they ignored the limits with official connivance and the ships were designed at 37,500 tons standard displacement. The original thought was to arm the ships with two quadruple turrets in a Nelson type arrangement, but the complexity and sheer size required was just too much. The Model 1928 16" in twin turrets was chosen instead. Secondary armament was to be the twin 130mm 1932 model dual purpose weapon system then under development. Smaller AA weapons of 37mm and 25mm were to be fitted. Aircraft facilities for three aircraft were to be fitted and as a concession to excess weight, no hangar was fitted. A canvas screen arrangement could be erected off the aft superstructure for maintenance purposes.

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The final design gave the following statistics:
Displacement: 38,000 tons standard, 43,700 tons full load.
Dimensions: 748 x 108 x 30 feet
Machinery: 4 shaft geared turbines, 140,000shp
Speed: 28 knots
Endurance: 12,500 nm @ 15 knots
Armour: 13" belt, 6" deck, 14/10/8" turrets
Armament:
8 x 16" (4x2)
16 x 5.1" (8x2)
16 x 37mm (8x2)
36 x 25mm (18x2)
Aircraft: 3
Crew: 1745

German right of reply.

The French build the 16" Dunkerque class in reply to the Deutschland type armoured ships. The real life Scharnhorst with 11" is now a dead design. The Germans need to build something better to counter or at least match the French giants.

The new German Scharnhorst class becomes a 16" battleship at 43,000 tons standard displacement and 836x112 feet. Two pairs were ordered in 1934 and 1936 for completion in 1939 and 1941. Constant improvements were made to these ships, the Scharnhorst and Gneisenau had only been in service a few months when they were refitted with full Atlantic bows and funnel caps.

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Shipbucket

The Deutschland Class Revolution

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