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wb21
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 14th, 2015, 12:45 pm
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Very nice wartime BBs! :)

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 14th, 2015, 5:34 pm
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Hello again
BB1987 wrote:
Krakatoa wrote:
I do have a question about the single funnel. Do you still have a forward boiler room? If you do, how do you pass the exhaust gasses to the funnel with the Q turret in the road.
I do suppose thre is no forward boiler room on that ship. In a similar way the two Fuso deleted the forward boiler rooms entierely, and at the same time almost doubled the engine output from 40.000 to 75.000shp.
BB1987 has it right. The refit was made relatively late (1937-41), so one can safely assume that modern machinery which has twice the power, but occupies only half the space used up by the old plant is available and the forward boiler room is no longer needed. In this case, it is taken up partly by 370mm magazines, partly by additional fuel tanks and partly by transmission and electronics compartments.

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GD


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MihoshiK
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 15th, 2015, 8:02 am
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So... Is Thiaria getting into the Deutschland race craze as well? :D

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Garlicdesign
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 6:10 pm
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Hello again!

2. Battleships of the Norfolk treaty era

2.1. Preliminary designs
The peace treaty of Norfolk in 1919 imposed severe restrictions upon Thiaria's navy. While the US felt that Thiaria's entry into the war had been, if not really justified, but at least understandable due to their outrage about Britain's handling of the easter uprising in Ireland, and was willing to be generous, the British insisted on castrating the Thiarian fleet. In the end, a middle way was found. Not only were the Thiarians allowed to retain two dreadnoughts, they also received permission to replace their Neamhspleachas-class pre-dreadnoughts with new ships as soon as they were 25 yeaars old, provided the replacements did not exceed 20.000 tons and 340mm main artillery caliber. In 1919, when battleship development was heading towards behemoths of between 40.000 and 50.000 tons, this size was deemed small enough to be no threat to anglo-saxon naval supremacy. Two years later, things had changed quite a bit, after battleship development had been frozen to the level attained early in WWI by the Washington Naval Treaty. Now, a modern, carefully designed 20.000-tonner would not be utterly outclassed, and the Thiarians embarked upon some serious design work. Two alternatives were ironed out in 1923, both flush deckers:

Type A: A 24-knot small battleship with six 340mm guns, eight 140mm guns, ten 100mm and twelve 37mm AA guns, six 559mm torpedo tubes, four airplanes, 310mm side and 140mm deck armour and 8.000 miles range
[ img ]

Type B: A 31-knot super-heavy cruiser with nine 254mm guns, eight 140mm guns, ten 100mm and twelve 37mm AA guns, twelve 559mm torpedo tubes, six airplanes, 180mm side and 100mm deck armour and 10.000 miles range
[ img ]

Obviously, none of the above designs had all the necessary features of a contemporary battleship. An intermediate type based upon type B, but with nine 305mm guns, was suggested, but could not be realized without either cutting speed to unacceptable 27 knots or cheating with the 20.000-ton limit by 10 to 15 percent, so it was rejected. Of the two tyos which could be built under current treaty restrictions, the Navy preferred Type B. At 31 knots, it could easily outrun Brazil's 26-knot Riachuelo class battleships, while at the same time being able to pulverize every other Brazilian ship. Even in a brawl with the RN, its speed was equal to that of a Hood-class battlecruiser, which would need to score a crippling long-range hit in order to run the Thiarian ship down; all other British capital ships could be outrun, and all British cruisers were hopelessly outgunned. In addition, Type B was considered to have superior aircraft handling facilities and better habitability than Type A. The government however considered Great Britain no likely enemy in the mid-1920s due to the relatively peaceful settlement of the Irish question and wanted ships which would not have to run from the Riachuelos, but could - in co-operation with the two older dreadnoughts still retained by the Thiarian navy - engage and (with some luck) destroy them. Type A obviously was better suited, with the most powerful permissible battery and formidable armour which could beat the British and Brazilian 862kg 381mm shell over most distances, although it had few other uses (shore bombardment and convoy escort service were not considered duties fit for a battleship in the 1920s). In the end, Type A had one advantage that proved decisive: It could be armed with 340mm guns which had already been produced for the never completed battlecruiser Antartach and the first of the 1915 battleships; five turrets and eighteen guns were on storage in 1925. As it also needed only half the machinery, Type A was cheaper than Type B by a margin of one third. Although the navy was not enthusiastic about that choice, it at least had the advantage that - with LT Crionna slated for refit to achieve 24 knots of speed - the future Thiarian battle squadron would have a homogenous speed. The design work spent on Type B was not wholly wasted, after all; downsized by 50%, they served as a template for Thiaria's first four heavy cruisers which were built in 1931 and 1932, and many features of these ships also re-appeared in the much better balanced 1933 design of the 35.000 ton Caithreim-class battlecruisers.


2.2. Artacain-Class
Despite her still fragile fiscal situation, Thiaria laid down the replacements for Neamhspleachas and Saoirse in 1926 and 1927, respectively. Both were built by Naval yards, the 1926 ship at Abernenui and the 1927 ship at Nuatearman. Rather than the old-fashioned tripod forward which preliminary Type A still featured, the finished design had a compact tower mast, which had a pyramidical look die to the placement of four 37mm twins forward. The flush-decked hulls received much criticism for having not enough freeboard, but they were generally rated quite good sea boats. Their machinery consisted of twin shaft geared turbines, fed by four modern narrow-tube boilers. 48.000 hp were easily enough for 24 knots design speed; both ships frequently exceeded this figure in service. They were the last Thiarian capital ships which were not required to have a range of 10.000 nautical miles at 15 knots, but 8.000 miles at 15 knots was still a respectable figure for their size. Their armament precisely corresponded with the original type A specification; the main guns and the anti-surface secondaries came free, because they had already been built for the battlecruiser LT Antartach and the abortive battleships of the 1914 programme. The flak outfit was unusually strong for the 1920s, and two triple torpedo tubes were carried for targets of opportunity. Due to a possible secondary function as raiders and the lack of aviation capability on the older Thiarian battleships, aviation facilities enjoyed top priority, although Thiaria was not officially allowed to possess military aircraft in 1926. The ships carried two revolving catapults amidships, with twin hangars for one recce seaplane or flying boat on both sides of the single funnel. Two additional planes could be carried on the catapults. The first unit was named LT Artacain after the commander of the Thiarian fleet which decisively defeated the Brazilians in the war of 1907/8; for the other one the name LT Tuama was chosen, after Thiaria's most influential ship designer of the early 19th century, who made the plans for all Thiarian wooden ships till the 1850s and served almost two decades as Minster of the Navy. The same names had already been selected for the 1914 programme battleships. Artacain was completed within 42 months, just before the signing of the London Naval Treaty which legalized their aviation facilities. She was first shown to the public in a vintage green-cream-black colour scheme for the festivities celebrating the 100th anniversary of Thiaria's independence; her two french-sourced CAMS 37 flying boats were Thiaria's very first military airplanes after the ban on military aviation was lifted.

LT Artacain 1930
[ img ]

LT Tuama took much longer to complete and joined the fleet late in 1932 after exactly five years under construction. Both ships were considerably less busy showing Thiaria's flag than the older, bigger battlesips; Tuama was however admitted to represent Thiaria in the 1937 coronation review at Spithead, the very first (and for the next 70 years also the last) official visit of a Thiarian warship in Great Britain. Both received a minor refit in 1938 and 1939, when eight 13.2mm quad mounts for close air defense were added; they were fully worked up again by the time Thiaria entered the second world war in December 1939.

LT Tuama 1939
[ img ]

The very first fleet-level sortie of the Thiarian Navy included the battleships Crionna (flag), Artacain and Tuama plus the carrier Antartach and five cruisers. For Tuama, it was also the last. On January 16th, 1940, the Thiarian fleet was charged by the battlecruisers HMS Howe and Rodney, the heavy cruisers HMS Hampshire, Northumberland, Lancaster and Somerset and the light cruisers HMS Phaeton and Amphion. (The other two light cruisers HMS Liverpool and Newcastle remained with the carrier HMS Renown during the gunnery action). The British wreaked havoc upon the overconfident Thiarians. Artacain was torpedoed both by the destroyer HMS Ashanti and the cruiser HMS Hampshire, which survived four 340mm hits in the process; she then had to retreat, chased off the battlefield by a single British destroyer in a truly humiliating fashion. Tuama fared even worse and was hit by fourteen 381mm shells from HMS Howe, which disabled both turrets, started several superstructure fires and slowed her down to 10 knots by three hits near the waterline which created considerable flooding. Although she would still have been salvageable at that point, Tuama received the coup de grace by HMS Phaeton with four torpedoes from short range; the Thiarian light cruiser LT Fiontar tried to defend Tuama and was sunk by HMS Phaeton, Lancaster and Somerset for her efforts. Only a belated airstrike from LT Antartach saved the remnants of the Thiarian fleet, and Artacain limped into Abernenui harbour some days later. She had received only little damage above the waterline, and repairs went ahead quickly; she was recommissioned in May 1940. During the battle of Poncportan in early June, when the battlecruisers Conlan and Caithreim avenged Tuama's loss upon HMS Howe, Artacain was still working up. Afterwards, Artacain participated in several cruiser raids against British shipping around the cape as a backup for the cruisers in case they encountered serious resistance; success was slim because the British kept close to the Namibian coast where land-based airplanes could cover them. From February 1941, Artacain participated in the invasion of New Portugal. She had the greatest hour in her career when the huge Brazilian battleship Riachuelo had to take shelter in the port of Sao Jorge da Mina after damage from an air strike. Artacain took up a position behind Riachuelo's stern from where the Brazilians, whose fire control system had been destroyed by strafing Thiarian fighters, could not effectively fire back, and pretty much emptied her magazines into the harbour, scoring 40 hits on the battleship and sinking two Brazilian auxiliaries and five transports as well. After re-supplying her ammunition, Artacain provided fire support for the fighting on New Portugal until the Brazilian surrender in early May 1941. She then returned to Noyalo in late June for rebarreling; her heavy rifles had accumulated over 400 shots each since she was commissioned. She returned to service in November 1941, having received air and surface search radar sets, a HF/DF set and main artillery fire control radar during the refit as well. The quad 13mm AAMGs were replaced with 20mm twins, and their number was increased to ten.

LT Artacain 1941
[ img ]

Artacain now formed a division with the recently re-commisioned LT Conaire and operated together with her till the battle of Faoigabhar in May 1943; for the particulars see Conaire's entry. On May 4th, 1943, the large troop convoy which Conaire and Artacain escorted was attacked by superior Royal Navy forces. The British battleship HMS Queen Mary hit the Artacain eleven times and would certainly have sunk her if Thiaria's main fleet had not arrived in time. Artacain was luckier than most of the transports and escaped, but required major reconstruction after having been shot up beyond all recognition. After being out of service for seven months, Artacain returned to the front in early March 1944, only weeks before Thiaria's fate was sealed by the successful allied invasion of New Portugal. Her forward superstructure had been considerably rebuilt to provide more space for command and control; her entire fire control suite was replaced by more modern radar guided equipment; her whole secondary armament was removed and replaced with four 130mm DP twins and five fully automatic 37mm quad mounts; the number of 20mm cannon was increased to 32 in 16 twin mounts. The torpedo armament was removed and more advanced search radars were installed.

LT Artacain 1944
[ img ]

As impressively modern as she now was, her days were couned. Thiaria's main fleet was lured away from New Portugal by a massive US-Brazilian feint towards the River Plate, rendering Artacain and Conaire the only Thiarian capital ships available for engaging the allied invasion fleet, which consisted of eight battleships, twelve aircraft carriers and fifteen cruisers. Conaire escaped; Artacain did not, and was heavily damaged by air attack in Sao Jorge da Mina. An attempt to bring her home for repairs led her before the torpedo tubes of the Brazilian submarine Triumfo, which sunk her with three torpedoes on May 2nd, 1944. Of her crew of slightly over 1.000, some 700 could be rescued.


Next: The LNT-era 35.000 ton battleships

Greetings
GD


Last edited by Garlicdesign on April 22nd, 2016, 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Krakatoa
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 6:26 pm
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Great drawings GD!

These two ships make a change from the Deutschland hunters in that other thread. Not many of those would be able to take on your pair with hopes of success.


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BB1987
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 6:29 pm
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*Thumbs up*

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Gollevainen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 6:32 pm
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great addition. specially for the story and the preliminary studies, makes this standing out among the AUs

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Skyder2598
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 7:13 pm
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nice work...;-)

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eswube
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 7:56 pm
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Fantastic work. :)

One question:
Quote:
...her two french-sourced CAMS 37 flying boats were Thiaria's very first military airplanes.
The very, very first? Meaning no airplanes during WW1 at all? :?


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heuhen
Post subject: Re: Thiaria: RebootPosted: July 27th, 2015, 9:58 pm
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These ships are so damn awesome. I love the Artacain class, I get that feel that those ships, fit well in an Navy that have a need for a big gun ship, but doesn't have the manpower or money to have an full size battleship.


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