Shipbucket

(inspired by Krakatoa thread and an earlier 9.2" I made)

In 1931 the Admiralty got word about the Deutschland class and wanted to reply but they couldn't due to the treaty's .

After a bit of thinking they remembered about the old large light cruisers sitting in a reserve as barrack hulks, They had been useless ships with only 4 main guns so couldn't range anything and thin protection and then they had been through about for conversion to aircraft carriers so lurking in the background nobody had named them in the WNT text as they where assumed to be useless apart from for conversions By the RN had gone for new builds after the work and learning done on HMS Furious (and the unwillingness to have second rate smaller ships than the ones for the USN/IJN).
This had left them in limbo used as training hulks semi striped of the guns nobody had really cared about them officially down on the RN strength lists as ACs, then the admiralty had its bright idea sell them to Australia and New Zealand who would then have the rearmed with 8" guns to hunt PDs


12x 8"
6x4" (later 12x4")
3x8x2pdr (later more and 20mm/40mm)

Everybody else was furious but the RN maintained that they didn't break any treaty as they where pre-existing ships (so not new builds over 10,000t*) and not named in the WNT and they made some noise about it all being the ANZACS fault that wasn't really supported by GB (not that anybody believed them), by the end of 34 Japan had anyway signalled it's withdrawal from WNT and Italy and France had not signed into the later LNT so GB only had to grovel to the US about it anyway.

The 2 served through WW2 with only minor refits of twin 4" and radar, of the two one was lucky HMNZS New Zealand killing herself a PB early on (Admiral Scheer on 5 November 1940) and later survived to see the final signing in Tokyo bay and one was not HMAS Australia was being lost off Malaya after a relatively uneventful life.

* Article XI
No vessel of war exceeding 10,000 tons (10,160 metric tons) standard displacement, other than a capital ship or aircraft-carrier, shall be acquired by, or constructed by, for, or within the jurisdiction of, any of the Contracting Powers. Vessels not specifically built as fighting ships nor taken in time of peace under Government control for fighting purposes, which are employed on fleet duties or as troop transports or in some other way for the purpose of assisting in the prosecution of hostilities otherwise than as fighting ships, shall not be within the limitations of this Article.
Article XII
No vessel of war of any of the Contracting Powers hereafter laid down, other than a capital ship, shall carry a gun with a calibre in excess of 8 inches (203 millimetres).

The drawing looks good, and 12x8" is a goodly amount, well able to defeat a Deutschland.

The only reservation I would have is that the 3" side armour would be unable to stop an 11" shell. Any hit from a Deutschland would cause more damage to your LBC than the same 8" hit on a PB. It is likely that the hunter could become the hunted.

The problem is that you would need 8"-9" armour to give some protection from the Deutschlands 11".

Whilst slightly out of the timeframe date wise this should give you some insight to what a Deutschland killer should be.



Currently as the Kiwi says, you don't have a hope in hell against a raider on one to one terms, you'd either have to hunt in a pack of them limiting their usefulness in the first place as raider hunters or disperse them with Counties and Exeter/York and hope you get lucky.

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AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

Krakatoa yes was hoping to save a bit of weight on guns might help boost my protection,

(2x782 mt (15") for 4 x (160/2)x3 (yes it will be less) gives me 1564-960 = at least 604t to help mag protection
Spring sharp says this can buy me 6"x10'x60 for 300t to protect the mags (will be 9" with the old 3" underneath) and use the other 300+t for the deck will only buy me another inch ish so 4" deck ?)

I will have to hope I hit first and harder but with 12 v 6 guns that might work ? (that or have a few extra CA/Cls to back me up )

Sorry Blackbuck your pic isn't showing up for me ? what is it.

I can't see your pic either B.B.

JSB, the PB's will also outrange your ships by 10-15,000 yards. Any hit within that range that slows your ship and the PB Kapitan thumbs his nose at you and disappears into the distance. If you could raise the gunpower to 9x10" or 8x12" or better that would give your ship a better chance. It is the armour that is most in need of strengthening even more than you are already doing. It would be worth slowing the ship a bit with the addition of a bit more heavy armour. Still fast enough to catch and dispatch and armoured well enough to take some damage while doing it.

I think of all threats, the RAN is going to be most worried about the IJN 8in heavy cruisers (and the Kongos) than PBs.
However, with the Canberras and these two, the RAN would have a powerful CA fleet, but even then the thin armour is going to be a worry when facing the IJN. Nice idea though.

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Hood's Worklist
English Electric Canberra FD
Interwar RN Capital Ships
Super-Darings
Never-Were British Aircraft

It must be the site doesn't like hot-linking.



That is what I was trying to get up.

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AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

That first 9/39 cruiser is that 3xquad or 4xtriple?

They sound a lot like the Princess Royal type I have in the Fisherless RN with 12x9.2"

(Geez Mark at your age you should not have any trouble getting it up) Do you need a better host?

I'd imagine 4*3 as it would seem the most traditional and straight forward arrangement, it does seem a bit muddled though does it not? As for the host. If I knew the sight was iffy about hot-linking I'd have dropboxed it in the first place

_________________
AU Projects: | Banbha et al. | New England: The Divided States
Blood and Fire

OK so number 2/40 v mine as a comparison (original) mod,

L------720----------786
B------84-----------81 (I think I might bulge her more)
D------24-----------25
T------21,500-------19,100
SHP---160,000-------90,000 (will be more if new engines)
Speed-33.5----------32 (not the end of the word if 1Kn slower)
End----9,000@?------6,000@20 (at what speed ? and new boilers will be better)
guns
1st----4x3 8"--------4x3 8"
2nd----6x2 4.5"------6x(1)2 4"
3rd----2x8 2pdr------3x8 2pdr
Air-----2-------------2
cat----1-------------1
belt----7"------------2-3" (needs more but looks like saved gun weight gets me the weight for at least the mags)
deck---4"------------(0.75-3") (add 1" more)
cost ---5.5mill--------??? should be less and anyway its treaty limited

So you get a less good ship but with treaty limits what else can you do and I don't think its that bad once you add better protection,
I think a 7" and 4" is probably doable with the weight saved from guns/new boilers and bulging it a bit more and yes its a very nice IJN 8" killer so maybe delay it till just after IJN declares its walking from WNT in late 1934 ?