Shipbucket

Those might be a bit too modern for what I am thinking. Besides, the Alaska fits almost perfectly in here, at least as originally planned.

This is a very interesting forum!

As noted in my post in General discussions I am looking at just such a ship for my Romanoi Empire project. Right now I have four 12-inch German turrets from the incomplete Basileus Leo IV of the Basileus Michael III class (lead ship completed 1914). As built she would be a decent match for the Italian battleships (pre-rebuilding), and would combine with Michael III as a squadron. She would be designed by our German expats and would have many features from the Deutschland class minus the diesels, being used by the Germans to try out various ides for the pocket battleships.

New mexico (post-1930 refit) and New Orleans might fit well the USN style in that timeline.

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-Koko Kyouwakoku (Republic of Koko)
-Koko's carrier-based aircrafts of WWII
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In 1930 the Germans and British concluded the first option to the Naval portion of the Versailles Treaty. Rumours coming out of Russia of the Soviets building battlecruisers gave the British a reason to enlarge the German treaty ships from the 10,000 ton limit to 60% of the then 35,000 ton limit = 21,000 tons.

As per normal the Germans took advantage of the limits with the 3rd Pocket Battleship being built at the new limit and a bit. At 25,000 tons standard displacemt there was just over a 20% cheat factor involved. With triple 13.8" replacing the triple 11" of the earlier ships, other changes included pairing the single 5.9" into 2 twin turrets. An enlarged heavy AA battery, with the light AA also being increased. The pure diesel installation was added to by the installation of a steam plant to be used for attaining full speed while the diesels were for cruising on the centre shaft, with the steam plant on the outer shafts. This ship would require a bit more than three cruisers to run it down, the Graf Spee had a Deep Pocket.

But if everybody is keeping to 12'/25,000t with a new treaty would using the German 11' not make more sense ? 13.8' doesn't give you much more IMO if you don't intend to fight real BB/BCs and a 25kt with 11' x 6 could use the weight to be quite fast that might help it more...

JSB

Howdy JSB,

13.8" doesn't give you much more than 11"???? Maybe you had better check the stats.
35cm - Shell 600kg 1324 lbs, range 38,500 yards, ROF 2.5.
28cm - Shell 300kg 662 lbs, range 39,000 yards, ROF 2.5.

I know which gun I would rather have. Setting the scene was to give a reason for the Germans to be able to build 25,000 ton ships. That the Germans built ships with 13.8" guns and 25000 tons is what the Germans did at the time. Reported one thing and did another.

Isn't that what you have done with your IJN Asama?

LOVE the mini-Scharnhorst, Krakatoa!

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

I would add the following part 'if you don't intend to fight real BB/BCs' who are you looking to fight Exeter/Leander or Hood/Repulse I don't think that 13.8 gives you sufficient margin to fight the second as a raider that cant take damage and get home and more 11' would be better v a CA as you will already go through any protection.

I suppose v the French or a 25,000t treaty BB then it does make sense so feel free to disregard me.
Yes so do tell me to shut up sorry if my questioning came over as to much like I just wanted to criticize you,

Thanks JSB

JSB,
If I armed it as you want with 6x11", all I would be doing is creating the Cruiser P variation of the Pocket battleship line. What I have tried to do is build something with some teeth that would be able to say with certainty that it could outfight what it could not outrun. My Graf Spee could easily take on a Renown to probably mutually assured destruction, it would probably come down to who got the lucky hit first. Against Hood the Graf Spee would have problems, GS would have trouble piercing Hood's side armour, but would go through Hoods deck armour like a knife through butter. In both cases the GS would be vulnerable to the British 15" guns. With 25,000 ton displacement I can not work enough armour into the design to make it safer -v- 15" guns. That would require 13" belt and 6" deck. It is cruiser proof not BB/BC proof.

The 13.8" shell would create havoc on the British cruisers. If you replace the 11" hits on Exeter, Ajax, Achilles with 13.8" shell data, Exeter would be sunk and the other two crippled and running. Damage to my much more heavily armoured GS would be much less and would probably not require harbour facilities to fix.

Scharnhorst and Gneisenau were the same dimensions as the WW1 Mackensen class that was to be armed with 8x13.8", I would have liked to see if the Germans could have fitted 9x13.8" into the same 11" turrets on S&G. Those turrets were huge for the 11" guns fitted in them. That would have given S&G a real chance against the British ships they came up against in real life.

I like her. And I'm guessing with a larger hull protection can be increased, although not enough to stand up to a capital ship certainly enough to stand up to normal cruisers.