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Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
https://111903.jhzobq.asia/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6398		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  wkstl [ December 25th, 2015, 3:53 am ]
Post subject:  Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
Yuktobania is a fictional nation from Janpanese video game Ace Combat: The Unsung War, appears as an allegory to the Soviet Union in real world.
Large Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Frigate Project 1199(Большой атомный противолодочный корабль проекта 1199), Osean designatation is Murmansk-class cruiser.
Based on the platform of Project 11990(only design, cancelled because of the dissolution of the Soviet Union), but I changed some parts from Project 22350(Admiral-Gorshkov-class Frigate, UKSK uniserval VLS, A-192M naval gun) and Project 1134.2(Russian cruiser Kerch, a Kara-class cruiser, MR-650 radar).
Weapons:
A-192M 130mm naval gun.
S-300FM "Frot-M"(SA-N-20) long-range surface-to-air missile system, B-203 armoured VLS for 64 cells.
3K95 "Kinzhal"(SA-N-9) short-range surface-to-air missile system, VLS for 48 cells.
3M87 "Kortik"(CADS-N-1) close-in weapon systems, 4 units.
UKSK uniserval VLS for "Kaliber-NK"(SS-N-27/30) anti-ship(3M54)/anti-submarine(91R)/land-attack(3M14) missiles and P-800 "Oniks"(SS-N-26) anti-ship missiles, 48 cells.
Sensor radars:
MR-650 "Podberozovik"(Flat Screen) 3D air-search radar.
MR-760 "Fregat-M2A"(Top plate) 3D air-search radar.

The name of ship "Мурманск" is an hero city of USSR, also a very improtant port. the name succeeded from Cruiser Murmansk, a Sverdlov-class cruiser which were the command ship of the Northern Fleet and retired in 1990s.

[ img ]
Author:  apdsmith [ December 25th, 2015, 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
Hi wkstl,

A couple of questions - firstly, if I'm seeing this correctly your helicopter is bigger than the hangar for it, is that correct? Second, if this is a nuclear-powered ship, I'm not sure why it appears to have a funnel? Third, the second set of sonar is right in the turbulence generated by the first set of sonar. I'm not sure what use you'd get from it.

Regards,
Adam

Edit: From your comment, I gather that this is a personal design within the Ace Combat universe, which I'm not personally familiar with. If I'm wrong and you're faithfully documenting an existing design, well, fair enough, then!
Author:  wkstl [ December 25th, 2015, 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
apdsmith wrote:
Hi wkstl,

A couple of questions - firstly, if I'm seeing this correctly your helicopter is bigger than the hangar for it, is that correct? Second, if this is a nuclear-powered ship, I'm not sure why it appears to have a funnel? Third, the second set of sonar is right in the turbulence generated by the first set of sonar. I'm not sure what use you'd get from it.

Regards,
Adam

Edit: From your comment, I gather that this is a personal design within the Ace Combat universe, which I'm not personally familiar with. If I'm wrong and you're faithfully documenting an existing design, well, fair enough, then!

For your question, I'm glad to answer these.

Russian warships often have a special design hangar different from the western navies. when the hangar recoveries the helicopter, it opens the ceiling. after the helicopter's entry, the floor with helicopter will drop down, then close the ceiling. This design can lower the center of gravity, and it's very important for Russian warships which sail in the windy Northern Atlantic. the same design can be seen on Slava class, Kara class Udaloy class, etc.

In fact, Soviet nuclear-power technology for surface warship was not so mature as that of US. so Soviet nuclear-powered warship have the extra conventional engines like boiler (for example, Kriov class and Ulyanovsk class have two boiler) as the addon and backup. Project 11990 have two gas turbines which have excellent capability of accelerating and decelerating, for backup and chasing submarine well. We can call this type of propulsion system for ships as Combined nuclear and gas(CONAG).

The layout of sonars just based on the original design, perhaps I took some mistakes of the details, I will show the the original photograph ASAP.

Yuktobania is just an allegory to the Soviet Union in the Ace Combat universe. In fact the game series just focus on the aircrafts and air forces. the detail of the ships and navies in the game is chaotic (can you image a navy has Kongo-class destroyer, Kriov-class battlecruiser and Iowa-class battleship along? ), so I set the development roadmap of Yuktobanian Navy, the warships and weapons just come from Soviet/Russian Navy, but I changed some to make different.
Author:  erik_t [ December 25th, 2015, 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
It seems attractive and reasonable. I'm not as well-versed in legacy Russian systems than I am in Western kit. What's the notional commissioning date? Today, it seems somewhat unlikely that such a large and important vessel would commission without at least an attempt at some fixed-face staring phased arrays, particularly since the VVS was one of the world leaders in pushing forward the technology. Particularly since (quite reasonably) you have only a single S-300 director and a single Tor director, you're going to be highly limited in terms of dealing with simultaneous attacks from widely-spaced directions.

Continuing a theme I've been noticing recently, I think you've probably got more liferafts than you need. Presuming symmetry, I see 17*4=68 containerized units. Presuming they had similar capacity to the USN units, this would suffice for a complement of over 1500!

There are a few other electronic details that I can't address while I'm off at Christmas, but I'll mention next week.

Nice stuff!
Author:  wkstl [ December 26th, 2015, 1:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
erik_t wrote:
It seems attractive and reasonable. I'm not as well-versed in legacy Russian systems than I am in Western kit. What's the notional commissioning date? Today, it seems somewhat unlikely that such a large and important vessel would commission without at least an attempt at some fixed-face staring phased arrays, particularly since the VVS was one of the world leaders in pushing forward the technology. Particularly since (quite reasonably) you have only a single S-300 director and a single Tor director, you're going to be highly limited in terms of dealing with simultaneous attacks from widely-spaced directions.

Continuing a theme I've been noticing recently, I think you've probably got more liferafts than you need. Presuming symmetry, I see 17*4=68 containerized units. Presuming they had similar capacity to the USN units, this would suffice for a complement of over 1500!

There are a few other electronic details that I can't address while I'm off at Christmas, but I'll mention next week.

Nice stuff!
thanks for your adivce! I'll explain your question.

Fisrt, Project 11990 is really existed. It got perparation for launching in 1988, would begun to build in 61 Kommunara Shipyard, Mykolaev(Nikolaiev), Ukraine. But the program had been cancelled in 1991 because of the Independence of Ukraine.

Second, I confirm that you are really not well-versed about Soviet Navy. In fact, PESA Radars which appeared before 21st century can't let their antenna arrays get to work together, because they have limited transmitters(for example, Aegis Combat System have two transmitters on Ticonderoga class, only one on the other version). Soviet Navy think the fixed-face antenna arrays for PESA is expensive and unnecessary. They pefer single-face PESA radar antennas like MR-750 "Fregat-M2A"(Top Plate) and MR-650 "Podberozovik"(Flat Screen), this complex has similar capability with Britsh Sampson Radar on Type 45 Destroyer. Therefore, Soviet Navy has their fixed-face antenna arrays for AESA called 5P20 "Poliment", it would apply on Project 11000(a destroyer project would succeed from Sovremeny class and Udaloy class, cancelled, some designs have been used on Indian Delhi class destroyer). After the dissolution of USSR, the same technology has been used on Project 22350(Admiral Gorshkov Class Frigate).

However, S-300F/FM "Frot"(SA-N-6/20) and 3K95"Kinzhal"(SA-N-9) are the common SAMs on Soviet guided missile cruiser (only Slava class and some Kriov class use similar but older M-4MA2 "Osa-MA2"(SA-N-4)). the two SAM systems both have the fire control radars with the PESA technology, due to get excellent mutil-target engagement capability. For example, S-300F/FM's 3R41(Top Dome) and 30N6E(Tomb Stone) radars can engage 6 targets with 12 missiles within 120-degree visual field (TVM guidance), the newer 30N6E2 is able to engage more. 3K95's 3R95(Corss Swords) radar can engage 4 targets with 8 missiles within 60-degree visual field (radio command guidance). these strong air defense capbility is very similar with that of Aegis Combat System.

Also, with the limit of aircrafts' range, American Aircraft-Carrier Combat Group only can launch aero-attack within one direction. the mutil-direction atttack needs the group to come closer, but it's VERY DANGEROUS of American fleet to get in the range of Soviet heavy supersonic anti-ship missiles. So Soviet naval SAM system is just enough to deal with one-direction threat, this is another reason for Soviet single-face PESA radars.
Author:  erik_t [ December 26th, 2015, 4:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Murmansk Class Nuclear-powered Anti-submarine Cruiser
That's repeated verbatim with the best of 'em. Good luck in making your drawings.
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