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ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
https://111903.jhzobq.asia/forums/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=6032		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JSB [ April 22nd, 2015, 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:  ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
What if the USN in 1902 decided it liked the double stack turrets ? (ok OTL they are a bad idea as the 8' cant fire faster than the 12' so what about all 12' guns !)

So in 1902 they sit down and change out the 8' guns and end up building a set of 'predreadnoughts' but with 2 x quad 12' turrets at each end. (I have cut the 8' for weight and sorted out the 7' higher to give better shooting in waves etc and lost the TT as well ;) )

USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
8 x 12'
10 x 7'
16 x 3'
[ img ]
It will be well over 16,000t (thinking 18-19) and should be at least 18+ Kn speed (longer should help) they will cost more and congress will not like the can of worms opened by them...
Author:  Krakatoa [ April 22nd, 2015, 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
They would also be the first "All Big Gun" ships, which would then forever after be called 'Conecticuts'? Especially if the US sped up the building process to complete it before UK's Dreadnought.

The main problem I can see is the recoil of the 12" in the upper storey. What it would do to the turret as a whole - knock it off the training rollers?

The double storey turret would also have the effect of keeping the armoured belt much shorter.
Author:  JSB [ April 22nd, 2015, 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Krakatoa wrote:
They would also be the first "All Big Gun" ships, which would then forever after be called 'Conecticuts'? Especially if the US sped up the building process to complete it before UK's Dreadnought.
Not sure that my ship is a much a break from the past, it does have the much more powerful armament 8x12' (and 10x7') but its not just big guns and doesn't have turbines so may not be regarded as such a big jump ? (even if in combat power its much more than a predread)
Quote:
The main problem I can see is the recoil of the 12" in the upper storey. What it would do to the turret as a whole - knock it off the training rollers?
Would it not be ok as long as its designed for the forces at the start ? (and I assume you might fire 1/2 salvo's anyway)
Quote:
The double storey turret would also have the effect of keeping the armoured belt much shorter.
Yes it does give a very nice short citadel (especially if you combine it with AON and reduce the secondary guns) and as long as you are willing to give up on making it float if all the parts outside are flooded (but I think that's a big jump for the date) so maybe just more space for engines ?
Author:  Dmitri97 [ April 23rd, 2015, 12:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Could you explain the inner workings of the turrets? I would think that ammunition would be an issue as well as rof and topweight
Author:  JSB [ April 23rd, 2015, 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
ok here comes the admission,
I have no idea how the double turrets with 12 and 8' guns worked in OTL (Dual-Caliber Turrets on Virginia's Mark 5)

So I would just be guessing and making stuff up on how my would work..... does anybody have any references on them ?
Quote:
ammunition would be an issue as well as rof and topweight
I assume that if they worked with 12/8' then they could be made to work with 12/12' and yes they would be heavy but I have made the ship significantly bigger to compensate (and removed secondary turrets/guns).
Author:  Krakatoa [ April 23rd, 2015, 1:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Best I can find without too much work:

[ img ]
Author:  JSB [ April 23rd, 2015, 2:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Thanks, I have taken the liberty to do a quick cut and past of what might be the design. [ img ]

I think it would work my only problem is that it does mean you lose 1/2 your fire-power if you lose a turret (and its not a small target).
It does raise interesting questions what would be next stage in development ? would you add a 3rd turret (Q) for 12 guns ? or go to super-firing separate mounts ?
Author:  apdsmith [ April 23rd, 2015, 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Hi JSB,

I do have another question - part of the reason for South Carolinas being the first super-firing dreadnoughts was concerns over how blast from the upper turret would affect the lower turret, as I understand it ... unless you restrict these to quite low elevations, will you not also experience issues with this? I'm a little concerned that the cut-outs in the turret face plate might let blast from the lower guns into the upper floors unimpeded.

Regards,
Adam
Author:  Dmitri97 [ April 23rd, 2015, 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Look at it this way. There's a reason ships with turrets of that sort are few and far between. Its just not practical. And the idea of superfiring turrets of this sort is just asking for a warship to flip over. The beam needed to protect against that would be ridiculous for the ship using it. Its just not a logical way of shipping more guns
Author:  JSB [ April 23rd, 2015, 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ALT USS Connecticut (AUBB-18)
Dmitri97 wrote:
Look at it this way. There's a reason ships with turrets of that sort are few and far between. Its just not practical. And the idea of superfiring turrets of this sort is just asking for a warship to flip over. The beam needed to protect against that would be ridiculous for the ship using it. Its just not a logical way of shipping more guns
I agree its a bit silly (and risks losing lost if 1 mount fails) but weight wise v flipping over, it cant be worse than traditional superfiring A/B/X/Y set-up you are missing 2 Barbette to start with.
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