Shipbucket

The RN built,
- Admiralty S class — 55 ships, 1916–1924
- Yarrow S class — 7 ships, 1917–1919
- Thornycroft S class — 5 ships, 1917–1919
OTL most of these where scraped in the 30s due to the LNT tonnage limits. (they where mostly completed after the war and spent most of there lives in reserve so they should not been to hard used).

What if they where simply disarmed and rendered unwarlike in some forgotten scrap yard till the treaty's collapsed ?

They would then be candidates to rebuild as escorts/2nd class destroyers for WW2


Not sure about the hull (I cut down a v but its getting a full rebuild anyway).
2 x twin 4 inch, 2 x 40mm single army guns, 2 x 21inch T, 2x .5 MG, DCs
Cut boilers for more fuel/accommodation space

Would this work ? not sure if I can bulge them for more displacement (for my extra topweight) as I can trade off speed or would this make them likely to capsize if hit as wing tanks are a bad idea ?

JSB

Edit - I'm thinking this might be a bit overweight, might rebuild with single 4 inch guns (will still beat any sub) and cut down bridge.

These ships were really tender, not much can be done about them.
The following is of HMS Skate (S class) as rebuilt and as modernized for ww2.

As can be seen she retained all three funnels, and was armed with a single 4" gun on the forecastle and several Oerlikon 20mm guns, as well as around 50 depth charges

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Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

My plan would be to,

- They still have 36Kn so should be able to cut 1/2 the engines this will give more range, this gives more room for fuel and accommodation. (only need 20+ Kn for escort)

- fit HA 4 inch guns (I think only 2 will fit ? )

- fit AA guns (may have to go with less than 2 x 40mm)

They would be cheap ASW escorts to free up destroyers for more important work.

Howdy JSB,

The idea is good (again). The S's were on a completion date par with the V/W's that got the WAIR conversion that Portsmouth Bill has done a nice version of for the Bucket. It is the smaller finer hull of the S's that is your major problem. The S's that did survive into WW2 had virtually nothing done to them. For that HMG that you love so much to sanction your S rebuilds, the work would have to be simple yet cost effective.

I am also not sure how they would go as Ocean escorts in the Atlantic, compared to coastal escorts used round UK and in the Med. One needs greater range and more ASW, the other more AA.

Keeping the single 4" but fitting them onto an AA mounting (1fwd, 1aft) would help them. As ocean escorts you could remove half the boilers, seal the space provided for extra oil fuel. The A-I class that were converted to long range escorts removed all the torpedoes in favour of more depth charge throwers and DC storage. As AA coastal escorts then you need more AA, removing the center 4" does give space for a quad 2pounder but the weight difference is quite large, single 2pd AA is available and they might be a better fit weight wise. Quad and twin 0.5's are your next drop in size for AA and while they proved to be not as good as hoped against fast modern aircraft, that is what the S's would have been fitted with during refits 1935-40. If you can get the single 40mm to be bought by the RN for license building from 1936-7 onwards, one of those would replace the center 4" nicely.

Your drawing is what the Hunts should have been like. (Another good design ruined by a committee). It would have been a good modern design 1935+ that could have been produced fairly cheaply.

Keep up the good work..
Nigel

V2 cheaper and smaller,

Cut down to 2x 4' AA, 2x 40mm 2 x 21'TT (some times swapped for more DCs)

What do you think ?

As an aside one of the reasons more S's were not available through to WW2 is that the RN wanted to keep one of the ex-German liners they got at the end of WW1, and by treaty they could not buy the vessel they had to scrap shipping on a ton-for-ton basis. 25 S class were scrapped in this way.

I always wondered why they scrapped 25 useable DD's when they could have scrapped Iron Duke which was a harbour bound ex-bb with much reduced armament.


Sorry Novice, HMS Skate was an Admiralty R-class destroyer not an S. It was the oldest DD in RN service for WW2.

Indeed she was an R class, but the difference between the two classes in negligible, both in size and build era.
As a side note HMS Skate was the only R class to see any service in WW2, most of them being gone by 1929.

_________________
Thank you Kim for the crest

"Never fear to try on something new. Remember that the Titanic was built by professionals, and the Ark by an amateur"

Where they not scraped due to LNT(1) 1930 ? this limited the total tonnage of destroyers each power could have to 150,000t

Why would the tonnage of an ex liner or Iron duke (allowed as a training ship, with hindsight they should have scaped her and made the IJN do the same to a Kongo class ) count towards anything ?

From Wiki:

HMS Caledonia/RMS Majestic

After being laid up at Southampton, she was sold on 15 May 1936 for scrap to TW Ward. However, due to a stipulation in her original agreement of being a prize of war handed over to the White Star Line as compensation for lost tonnage, she could not be sold to TW Ward, so an exchange was set up where the shipbreakers were given 24 outmoded destroyers as compensation for the equivalent scrap value of Majestic. In July 1936 the ship was converted into a Boys' and Artificers'training ship and renamed HMS Caledonia.

The conversion of Majestic was undertaken at Southampton and comprised the shortening of her masts and funnels so that she could pass beneath the Forth Railway Bridge and a reduction in the number of lifeboats.

On 8 April 1937, Caledonia departed Southampton for her new base in Rosyth and was commissioned on 23 April 1937, with a capacity of 1,500 trainees. The conversion of the liner meant that 100 Officers, 180 Chief Petty officers and petty officers, 300 ship's company, 1500 Seamen Boys and 500 Artificer Apprentices could be accommodated on board. By the end of 1937 there were 800 Seamen Boys and 230 Apprentices on the ship's books. At the peak of her training career during 1938 - 1939, her books were full[19]

After the outbreak of World War II, the trainees were removed to accommodation ashore and the ship's berth was emptied for Naval use. Caledonia was temporarily anchored in the Firth of Forth pending a decision as to her disposal.

On 29 September 1939, Caledonia caught fire and burnt out, sinking at her moorings. The wreck was sold in March 1940 to Thomas W. Ward for scrap, but it was not until 17 July 1943, that the remains of Caledonia were raised and towed to the scrapyard. The bell was later placed in St Nicholas Church, Dereham.
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Those destroyers (24) would probably still have been scrapped anyway due to LNT so in the long run it may have been a good move if the Majestic/Caledonia had not burnt out 3-4 years later. What is funny is the Majestic (ex SS Bismarck) was of the same vintage as the S class DD's scrapped to save it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RMS_Majestic_(1914)

An interesting idea but I'm not sure the topweight would be available for extending the forecastle deck and structurally it would be almost impossible without serious work as all the reinforcement etc. would have to be moved aft.
Maybe try a less radical refresh as I think as East Coast escorts they may have been ok.

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