Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 7 of 7  [ 65 posts ]  Go to page « 13 4 5 6 7
Author Message
bezobrazov
Post subject: Re: The Norwegian CruiserPosted: November 1st, 2013, 7:11 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 3406
Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:20 pm
Ok, I'll try and squeeze it in this weekend. I'll email it to you, though, for your approval, if that's ok.

_________________
My Avatar:Петр Алексеевич Безобразов (Petr Alekseevich Bezobrazov), Вице-адмирал , царская ВМФ России(1845-1906) - I sign my drawings as Ari Saarinen


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
heuhen
Post subject: Re: The Norwegian CruiserPosted: November 1st, 2013, 7:28 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 9102
Joined: December 15th, 2010, 10:13 pm
Location: Behind you, looking at you with my mustache!
oki doki


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
eswube
Post subject: Re: The Norwegian CruiserPosted: November 1st, 2013, 7:29 pm
Offline
Posts: 10696
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 8:31 am
Upgraded versions look awesome!
So sad they are only imaginary vessels. ;)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Colombamike
Post subject: Re: The Norwegian CruiserPosted: November 1st, 2013, 9:01 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 1359
Joined: July 27th, 2010, 6:18 am
Location: France, Marseille
my two cents, heuhen ;)
heuhen wrote:
The ship is around the size of the Swedish cruiser "Tre Kronor" Should be build around that time to. The idea is that Norway started it's rebuild program off the Norwegian Navy mush earlier than it did in 1938-39. (The Norwegian Naval Program was: 6-10 small submarines, 5-6 destroyers of Sleipner class (735 tons), 1 destroyer leader (1700 tons) and one Coastal defense ship (Artillery ships) (10-11" gun ship))

My idea is that since Norway had by then a complete Navy to defend them self against the German Navy by that time. The German Navy would take the chance of losing the entire Navy to Norway (we all know what happened when an Norwegian Coastal defense battery opened fire on "Blücher", what would happened with a rebuild Navy, that got the money they needed... yeah right.)
Think intelligence, very large & extense minefields, very large & dispersed coastal artillery, many MTB's but no more, with dozens of torpedo-bombers & escorts-fighters. Keeps Destroyers & Escort-destroyer only for national proud.... :( , the larger ships are only pure hypocrit folly :(
heuhen wrote:
Norway see that Sweden build cruiser. Norway say "hey with long coast line to defend in this time, a cruiser isn't a bad idea)
Not copy, think only $ and Russian threat...
heuhen wrote:
Yeah right my brain is messy... and stupid... but it would be fun to see how such a cruiser can look like.
No, I like your (warships) open-mind
heuhen wrote:
BTW. I use Sleipner class as an idea about how the cruiser might look like since the Sleipner class was the last "tru" all Norwegian designed and build Naval vessel.
You "almost understand everything", but you misses all :?
In the postwar (shipbuilding) period (1946-1958, for the Norwegian side), think only newer AAW escort-destroyers (6-8), (dozens) MTB, (few) minelayers, (one dozen) submarines, (many) minefiels & coastal-artillery !!!!
heuhen wrote:
Another thing a come to remember is that Sleipner class had Norwegian made guns, what if Norway made them self guns.... on contract or something.
After war, think only US or Bofor weapons (maybe but dubious UK weapons) systems
heuhen wrote:
[ img ]
Look like a 1942-1946 cruiser design, almost obsolete by early 1950's, forget it by late 1956 & give it to scrappers by 1958...
heuhen wrote:
The Norwegian HNoMS den Norske löve (The Norwegian lion) laid down in 1948. was a cruiser build to become an AAW escort and lead ship in a flotilla of destroyers.
With Modified Swedish guns, mainly modified to withstand the extreme North sea weather. in the 50's she received an upgrade to her main armament, the upgrade was to give her better surface to land artillery ability.
[ img ]
- Laid down by 1948 => commissioned by 1952-1954
- a ASW depth-charge rack aft ! :shock: , LOL :lol: . On a ship of this size (180+ meters, 7/9000 tons), the ASW rack was fully ineffective (the TOO BIG ship are not enough maneouvrable), remenber your the AA Atlanta cruiser with here ineffective aft ASW rack's....removes them quickly !!!
heuhen wrote:
In 1963 she was docked in an US Naval shipyard where the entire aft section of the ship was redesigned and re-build to fit Mk-10 GMLS Mod-7 with 60 missiles at the same time she got an massive upgrade on the electronic side. all 40mm was removed and replaced by 20mm. here 57mm received an upgrade to it's fire control systems and new shells was assigned the gun. here engines was also rebuild and she recived an new an larger command deck. she was launched again in 1964 and raised her command flag half year later.
[ img ]
- anti-ships torpedo-tubes in 1964, with so many soviets ships with a full sensors/radars suit, LOL :lol: .
anti-ships torpedo-tubes dubious-usefull by mid 1950's and obsolete by late 1950's/early 1960's !!!
- your retractable very small hangar look EXTREMELY vulnerable/fragile for me in nordic-sea condition.
In the first "very heavy sea" or "storm", you fragile hangar even fly away (or blast away) :shock: :o (toward the north pole :mrgreen: ).
heuhen wrote:
in 1973 she received her final upgrade. among the upgrade was:
- 12 x Penguin launchers.
- sea sparrow
- 2 x "egg" fire control for improve the firing from 57mm. but could also be used toward the main guns.
her main guns received restrictions because the guns was starting to get very old.
[ img ]
- LOL :o , by 1973, anti-ships torpedo tubes or ASW rack on this LARGE ships are fully obsolete again the russian 1970's systems :shock:
heuhen wrote:
She was taken out of service in the 80's after having large engine problems over some time.
a realistic scenario for a ageing (30+ years old) engine cruiser...
heuhen wrote:
She have seen combat in Korea when she was assigned for artillery support. She saw combat in Vietnam, as an escort vessel for convoys. but an engine failure during close driving exercise at high speed with US destroyers, ended in damage to an US Destroyer was the nail in the coffin for here. She is Now laying at the Norwegian Naval Museum in Horton and awaiting fund for restoration.
EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to see the largest norwegian unit off the korean coast when, at the same time, the soviet threat was extremely heavy off the norwegian coast's during the 1950's !!!!!!!!!

Think:
- Your cruiser was laid-down by 1948
- First Russian A-Bomb test by 1949.
- Russian ability to "atomize" the 3 or 4 largest Norwegian targets by mid 1952.
- First Russian H-Bomb device test by mid 1953.
- By late 1953, the soviet navy can align in the Northern Fleet at least 2 or 3 cruisers (sverdlov class), more than a dozens of Skoriy class destroyers, some others destroyers, many submarines & aircrafts, some minefiels & nuclear-weapons......this situation even be more worse by late 1956...
- First Russian H-Bomb (operationnal) test by late 1955.
- Russian ability to atomize a NATO squadron (without carrier) by late 1956/1957 in the nordic seas.
- Russian ability to atomize a US carrier strike groupe in the barent-sea by 1961/1962...

In any case, your cruisers are obsolete by...1955/1958...
Too big, too expensive (for the small norvegian budget), too "crew" expensive (1 cruiser crew = 6 escort-destroyer crew ?) , too vulnerable to the soviet threat. Better to built more small, cheap & survivable ships.

For the norwegian (largest warships), postwar, think only AAW escort-destroyer
- 6 to 8 ships
- 1650/2350 tons
- 4 or 6 guns (1 forward/1 aft or 1 forward/2aft)
- full AA/DP guns (57mm bofor or 76mm US)
- ASW mortar or rockets, depth charges aft

"prefers the US logistics than the Swedish quality..." ;) (more usefull in the event of World War III...)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
heuhen
Post subject: Re: The Norwegian CruiserPosted: November 1st, 2013, 10:08 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 9102
Joined: December 15th, 2010, 10:13 pm
Location: Behind you, looking at you with my mustache!
you are totally correct if I was drawing it to fit in this world. and not an alternative scenario!! as I stated in one of my post. and what you have written down is in fact how the Norwegian Navy looked like, it was just a lot bigger! I could explain it very good how it looked like. but that need it's own topic.

You must note that this scenario is made for where things is a lot different than in this world: if it was the real world. Norway would have an modern 10" Coastal defense ship in the 120-130 meter size, 6 small and 1 large destroyer, up to 10 new submarines, and 6 old ones and between 15 and 30 small torpedo boats. That was on the order document sent from the government to the Navy in late 1938. thus Navy started to build those destroyers first, the war more important than the coastal defense ship, due to the main gun on the old coastal defense ship was still effective to some grade... and a thousand more words...
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
The ship is around the size of the Swedish cruiser "Tre Kronor" Should be build around that time to. The idea is that Norway started it's rebuild program off the Norwegian Navy mush earlier than it did in 1938-39. (The Norwegian Naval Program was: 6-10 small submarines, 5-6 destroyers of Sleipner class (735 tons), 1 destroyer leader (1700 tons) and one Coastal defense ship (Artillery ships) (10-11" gun ship))

My idea is that since Norway had by then a complete Navy to defend them self against the German Navy by that time. The German Navy would take the chance of losing the entire Navy to Norway (we all know what happened when an Norwegian Coastal defense battery opened fire on "Blücher", what would happened with a rebuild Navy, that got the money they needed... yeah right.)
Think intelligence, very large & extense minefields, very large & dispersed coastal artillery, many MTB's but no more, with dozens of torpedo-bombers & escorts-fighters. Keeps Destroyers & Escort-destroyer only for national proud.... :( , the larger ships are only pure hypocrit folly :(
Yeah I know, but in this scenario things are a bit different. How Norway economy are, how bigger population due to more of those that moved to USA stayd back home in Norway, (Norway had 3 mill in 1942 population vise). "different scenario, etc. and other bullshit talk from me!"
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
Norway see that Sweden build cruiser. Norway say "hey with long coast line to defend in this time, a cruiser isn't a bad idea)
Not copy, think only $ and Russian threat...
The text was just trowed out there in an messy way.
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
Yeah right my brain is messy... and stupid... but it would be fun to see how such a cruiser can look like.
No, I like your (warships) open-mind
You should read my mind at some time. you would get heart attack. but thanks... I think! :lol:
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
BTW. I use Sleipner class as an idea about how the cruiser might look like since the Sleipner class was the last "tru" all Norwegian designed and build Naval vessel.
You "almost understand everything", but you misses all :?
In the postwar (shipbuilding) period (1946-1958, for the Norwegian side), think only newer AAW escort-destroyers (6-8), (dozens) MTB, (few) minelayers, (one dozen) submarines, (many) minefiels & coastal-artillery !!!!
That is exactly what Norway did. If people think that just some small islands out in North Norway have small bases, then they are wrong. almost the entire coastline in North Norway is an underground fortress. and the last one of them was finish build last year, for newer be used (cost:130 mill. EUR). There was hidden torpedo bunkers with long range torpedoes. 5" to 8" guns. etc. and they was all in range of each other. for example i one of the guns was taken, an another coatal battery could fire upon it. every single bridge in North Norway is a bit more expensive to build because they was build to be easy to destroy with as little explosive as possible (ready build in explosive zones in the bridge).... and many other things.

but again this is good, but here in this scenario it is a bit different. and in one of my post I told I am going to start an Au with this ships. etc.
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
Another thing a come to remember is that Sleipner class had Norwegian made guns, what if Norway made them self guns.... on contract or something.
After war, think only US or Bofors weapons (maybe but dubious UK weapons) systems
Norway had a lot of UK guns, since they recived many destroyers, PT boats and other vessels from UK, but they changed over to Bofors (Swedish), and US weapons over time. mine cruiser is designed with the main weapons from Scandinavian, and some UK and US weapons. Mainly we Scandinavian have to stick together.... "said nobody!"
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
Look like a 1942-1946 cruiser design, almost obsolete by early 1950's, forget it by late 1956 & give it to scrappers by 1958...
That design did I drop because I wasn't happy with it. thus why I drew that other cruiser.
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
The Norwegian HNoMS den Norske löve (The Norwegian lion) laid down in 1948. was a cruiser build to become an AAW escort and lead ship in a flotilla of destroyers.
With Modified Swedish guns, mainly modified to withstand the extreme North sea weather. in the 50's she received an upgrade to her main armament, the upgrade was to give her better surface to land artillery ability.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/887 ... escort.PNG
- Laid down by 1948 => commissioned by 1952-1954
- a ASW depth-charge rack aft ! :shock: , LOL :lol: . On a ship of this size (180+ meters, 7/9000 tons), the ASW rack was fully ineffective (the TOO BIG ship are not enough maneouvrable), remenber your the AA Atlanta cruiser with here ineffective aft ASW rack's....removes them quickly !!!
I used spare depth charges rack from destroyers that was decommissioned, thus no cost, and crew could have that type of "exercise" :lol:
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
In 1963 she was docked in an US Naval shipyard where the entire aft section of the ship was redesigned and re-build to fit Mk-10 GMLS Mod-7 with 60 missiles at the same time she got an massive upgrade on the electronic side. all 40mm was removed and replaced by 20mm. here 57mm received an upgrade to it's fire control systems and new shells was assigned the gun. here engines was also rebuild and she recived an new an larger command deck. she was launched again in 1964 and raised her command flag half year later.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/887 ... 201964.PNG
- anti-ships torpedo-tubes in 1964, with so many soviets ships with a full sensors/radars suit, LOL :lol: .
anti-ships torpedo-tubes dubious-usefull by mid 1950's and obsolete by late 1950's/early 1960's !!!
- your retractable very small hangar look EXTREMELY vulnerable/fragile for me in nordic-sea condition.
In the first "very heavy sea" or "storm", you fragile hangar even fly away (or blast away) :shock: :o (toward the north pole :mrgreen: ).
- I didn't remove it, because why bother use and weld torch to remove it. "he said and burned" Nah I forgot to remove those torpedoes... and changed the to small light wight ASW-torpedoes.
-That's why it was removed on that second drawing. and it as more as an tent that was used when there was some work on the helicopter. But it is also placed so high up that it would be protected against the worst of the weather. but most of the time that "tent" would not be there I just drew it in so we can see it.
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
in 1973 she received her final upgrade. among the upgrade was:
- 12 x Penguin launchers.
- sea sparrow
- 2 x "egg" fire control for improve the firing from 57mm. but could also be used toward the main guns.
her main guns received restrictions because the guns was starting to get very old.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/887 ... 201973.PNG
- LOL :o , by 1973, anti-ships torpedo tubes or ASW rack on this LARGE ships are fully obsolete again the russian 1970's systems :shock:
yeah...
Quote:
heuhen wrote:
She have seen combat in Korea when she was assigned for artillery support. She saw combat in Vietnam, as an escort vessel for convoys. but an engine failure during close driving exercise at high speed with US destroyers, ended in damage to an US Destroyer was the nail in the coffin for here. She is Now laying at the Norwegian Naval Museum in Horton and awaiting fund for restoration.
EXTREMELY UNLIKELY to see the largest norwegian unit off the korean coast when, at the same time, the soviet threat was extremely heavy off the Norwegian coast's during the 1950's !!!!!!!!!
In this scenario there was two cruiser in Norway on sent a way to Korea. During the cold war USA financed the Norwegian military so much that we could amount up an army up to 500000 men/women in an army designed to slow down the russian with help of burnth earth tactic and destroying every single bridges in North. in the Navy said it was an happy story to... the combat Navy was so big that it was... an full size fleet without aircraft carrier. 5 frigate, 2 corvettes (3 never build), at the most 60 torpedo and missile boats PT's, 12 submarines and many other vessels. so at the biggest Norway had under the cold war 81 pure warships at hand (some of them was in service for only 10 years, while other was in service for 40 years!) and with that much economy interst USA had in Norway's military, there would'n be totally weird that if the asked for one cruiser, where they for example sent over 2 destroyers or frigates in it's place, (big gun was an need in Korea)
Quote:
Think:
- Your cruiser was laid-down by 1948
- First Russian A-Bomb test by 1949.
- Russian ability to "atomize" the 3 or 4 largest Norwegian targets by mid 1952.
- First Russian H-Bomb device test by mid 1953.
- By late 1953, the soviet navy can align in the Northern Fleet at least 2 or 3 cruisers (sverdlov class), more than a dozens of Skoriy class destroyers, some others destroyers, many submarines & aircrafts, some minefiels & nuclear-weapons......this situation even be more worse by late 1956...
- First Russian H-Bomb (operationnal) test by late 1955.
- Russian ability to atomize a NATO squadron (without carrier) by late 1956/1957 in the nordic seas.
- Russian ability to atomize a US carrier strike groupe in the barent-sea by 1961/1962...
How cares, we are the Vikings. you don't f**** with the vikings. even in the after life! :lol: during the cold war Norway had an agreement with the Russian that "Olavsvern Base" in Tromso in North Norway was as North we could have an major Navy base.

In any case, your cruisers are obsolete by...1955/1958...
Too big, too expensive (for the small Norwegian budget), too "crew" expensive (1 cruiser crew = 6 escort-destroyer crew ?) , too vulnerable to the soviet threat. Better to built more small, cheap & survivable ships.
Quote:
For the Norwegian (largest warships), postwar, think only AAW escort-destroyer
- 6 to 8 ships
- 1650/2350 tons
- 4 or 6 guns (1 forward/1 aft or 1 forward/2aft)
- full AA/DP guns (57mm bofor or 76mm US)
- ASW mortar or rockets, depth charges aft
and that is what Norway did in the start, but after 1960 there come those Oslo class frigate, that after they second upgrade was among the most powerfully vessel for it size at that time... and what you described in the text of weapons is Oslo class.
Quote:
"prefers the US logistics than the Swedish quality..." ;) (more usefull in the event of World War III...)
but then we have that we Scandinavians....


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 7 of 7  [ 65 posts ]  Return to “Personal Designs” | Go to page « 13 4 5 6 7

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]