Moderator: Community Manager
[Post Reply] [*]  Page 50 of 52  [ 513 posts ]  Go to page « 148 49 50 51 52 »
Author Message
Sumeragi
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 2:35 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 136
Joined: December 22nd, 2014, 10:38 am
emperor_andreas wrote:
Ooh, an 18-inch-gun Iowa...me likey! :D
There actually were several designs in the preliminary stages of the Iowa-class concepts.

heuhen wrote:
those super heavy shells Iowa used had similar effect to Japanese 18" guns.
Misconception. It was still noticeably inferior to 46 cm.
Quote:
[ img ]

The Type 1 AP shell actually had some astounding results with the deck penetration. The flatter cap allowed it to normalize against extreme slopes, but at a cost. It would penetrate that amount, but anything below 15km when it did penetrate generally caused the shell not to fuse due to how it penetrated. Much like how the shell busted through the turret roof of the Dunkerque from the HMS Hood, the shell would normalize, grip, and penetrate but due to the extreme pressure of the side gripping of the AP cap, it would force the cap into the shell body partially destroying itself in the process. So you get full penetration but with large fragmentation and after effects without fusing. Beyond 15km this is reduced and by 20km range it isn't nearly an issue. This issue corresponds with Japanese testing at angles of 10-20-30 degrees for the Type 91/Type 1 46cm shell and their post design testing to attempt to reduce the problem with new cap hardening and body tempering. Impacts under 15 degrees still suffered the issue but less so and by 25 degrees it was no longer a problem. Normalization for the shell was between 3-8% degrees. This is taken into consideration on range.

Overall, the Mark 8 AP shell starts to catch up to the Type 1 shell around 20-25km, and they normalize before the 46cm over takes it again. So at average combat ranges there is only about a 10-11% gain in penetration of the 46cm shell, but the larger bursting charge and direct MJ of kinetic impact goes to the 46cm shell. That isn't to say that the 16'' Mark 8 is weak, just physics do come into play.

Also, for future reference, don't use combined fleets for any information. They are extremely bias and very much poorly dated and understood by an Amateur who knows little in regards to Metallurgy, Physics, nor Naval Design and should be seen as for what it is, a hobbyist's perspective.
Original post

The writer has naval engineering training, so he's trustworthy.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Rodondo
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 4:55 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2493
Joined: May 15th, 2011, 5:10 am
Location: NE Tasmania
Quote:
"They are extremely bias and very much poorly dated and understood by an Amateur who knows little in regards to Metallurgy, Physics, nor Naval Design and should be seen as for what it is, a hobbyist's perspetive."
However Mr Okun has done the hard yards and managed to gauge most large calibre WW2 naval guns here, where we find the only major advantage of the 46cm was the larger weight and the improved penetration at almost unrealistically close ranges, the mounts had a difference of a 1000t which, at longer distance more close to the usual engagement range of battleships for the time, the margin does shrink. At the extreme range of both guns, this margin is actually seems in the 16" mk8's favour

_________________
Work list(Current)
Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)

There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Sumeragi
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 5:37 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 136
Joined: December 22nd, 2014, 10:38 am
Rodondo wrote:
However Mr Okun has done the hard yards and managed to gauge most large calibre WW2 naval guns here, where we find the only major advantage of the 46cm was the larger weight and the improved penetration at almost unrealistically close ranges, the mounts had a difference of a 1000t which, at longer distance more close to the usual engagement range of battleships for the time, the margin does shrink. At the extreme range of both guns, this margin is actually seems in the 16" mk8's favour
The program had been updated after 2009, so what Azumazi wrote would be more accurate.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Rodondo
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 5:52 am
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 2493
Joined: May 15th, 2011, 5:10 am
Location: NE Tasmania
Sumeragi wrote:
Rodondo wrote:
However Mr Okun has done the hard yards and managed to gauge most large calibre WW2 naval guns here, where we find the only major advantage of the 46cm was the larger weight and the improved penetration at almost unrealistically close ranges, the mounts had a difference of a 1000t which, at longer distance more close to the usual engagement range of battleships for the time, the margin does shrink. At the extreme range of both guns, this margin is actually seems in the 16" mk8's favour
The program had been updated after 2009, so what Azumazi wrote would be more accurate.
I'm inclined to disagree, seeing the masses of articles Okun has written on the matter, including a vast amount of supporting work.

_________________
Work list(Current)
Miscellaneous|Victorian Colonial Navy|Murray Riverboats|Colony of Victoria AU|Project Sail-fixing SB's sail shortage
How to mentally pronounce my usernameRow-(as in a boat)Don-(as in the short form of Donald)Dough-(bread)
"Loitering on the High Seas" (Named after the good ship Rodondo)

There's no such thing as "nothing left to draw" If you can down 10 pints and draw, you're doing alright by my standards


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 5:14 pm
Offline
Posts: 5218
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 9:38 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact: Website
I thought World of Warships had been canceled in favor of focusing on the tank/plane side of the game?

_________________
USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
heuhen
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 6:17 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 9102
Joined: December 15th, 2010, 10:13 pm
Location: Behind you, looking at you with my mustache!
Colosseum wrote:
I thought World of Warships had been canceled in favor of focusing on the tank/plane side of the game?
It's in Beta testing at the moment, where many selected people test the game. One of the big one that are testing the game is youtuber, "The Mighty Jingles."


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
CanisD
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 6:25 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 307
Joined: July 29th, 2010, 2:47 am
Location: South Carolina
Contact: Website
You csn actually buy your way into the Beta by getting one of the premium ships they have for sale.

_________________
"If you want to have dinner with the Devil, make sure to bring a long spoon!"
The New Wolf's Shipyard
The New Wolf's Shipyard Forum


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Sumeragi
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 7:39 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 136
Joined: December 22nd, 2014, 10:38 am
Colosseum wrote:
I thought World of Warships had been canceled in favor of focusing on the tank/plane side of the game?
You're thinking of the trash that is War Thunder.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Colosseum
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 7:55 pm
Offline
Posts: 5218
Joined: July 26th, 2010, 9:38 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact: Website
Aren't they one and the same? 8|

Also: no Alaska class CBs?? Looks like the worst game ever, TBH.

_________________
USN components, camouflage colors, & reference links (World War II only)


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
heuhen
Post subject: Re: Nihon Kaigun 1946Posted: May 17th, 2015, 8:54 pm
Offline
User avatar
Posts: 9102
Joined: December 15th, 2010, 10:13 pm
Location: Behind you, looking at you with my mustache!
Colosseum wrote:
Aren't they one and the same? 8|

Also: no Alaska class CBs?? Looks like the worst game ever, TBH.
things getting added over time. so expect Alaska to arrive in some time. There was the same thing whit World of tanks, in the start there war some tanks, now... well many tanks.


Top
[Profile] [Quote]
Display: Sort by: Direction:
[Post Reply]  Page 50 of 52  [ 513 posts ]  Return to “Alternate Universe Designs” | Go to page « 148 49 50 51 52 »

Jump to: 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests


The team | Delete all board cookies | All times are UTC


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
[ GZIP: Off ]