Shipbucket

Never ever ever rely on Springsharp to give your ship a 'pass' grade.

Novice is correct, your ship is not a good fit. Overgunned and far too small for its fittings.

If you advise against it that's fine, but I don't agree with you.

I've been using it since I joined the site in 2010. It's been used to work out the 60+ AU ships I've drawn before the first pixel hits the screen. Not all of my ships are aesthetically pleasing or "pretty", but I don't draw to make everybody happy with the end result. I draw what is plausible or possible, and in the absence of any other tool, Springsharp is what I use to keep it grounded.

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Redhorse

Current Projects:
Republic of Texas Navy
FD Scale F-14s

1912: After three years of construction, the third Invincible is commissioned:



Invincible is a step up from the armored cruisers in armament and size. She weighed in at 5280 tons and stretched the limits of the slipways with her 300' length. Her 20' draft was the deepest of any Texas Navy ship to date. American cage masts were adopted for the spotting tops.

Her guns were the 10'/40s employed in the Army's coast defenses at Galveston, and were also the largest guns mounted to date. Secondaries were ten 6"/50s. She had an initial fit of 6lb QF guns for torpedo boat defense and a set of 18" torpedo tubes.

The armor belt was 8" thick, with a 2" armored deck. The conning tower was also protected by 8" of armor.

Maximum speed was 20 knots, with a range of 2650 miles at 10 knots.

World War One modifications included canvas covered bridges and an additional fire control station over the pilot house.

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Redhorse

Current Projects:
Republic of Texas Navy
FD Scale F-14s

me like.... very nice drawings

That is what you call putting your reputation on the line.

Unfortunately for you, you do not seem to have read the various discussions held on Springsharp in the past. The outcome is normally to use Springsharp to check your drawing to see if what you have drawn is possible. But not to rely on it. All you have done is call into question the 60+ drawings you have done in the past 6 years. By now you should have learnt to do things better.

Your latest drawings, the problem they have is that you do not have the space aboard ship to carry all the armaments you have given them plus the room you would need for boilers. engines etc for your propulsion systems to make the speeds you have nominated. It is one of the failings of Springsharp. - one of many failings.

Just by watching and reading the entries of drawings and written information posted in Shipbucket should give you a feel for what is or is not possible in real life. The nearest real life ships built at the same time as yours and to similar sizes to yours are the Scandinavian coast defence ships. Have a look at those in comparison to what you are trying to do with your ships. Use those as the basis for your ships, then once you have got your drawings the way you want them - use Springsharp to check for any glaring errors.

I have no problems with the 'look' of your drawings they can be pretty or pretty ugly - your choice. I will only comment on whether your ships will 'work' or not.

One thing I always ask Springsharp users to do - go to the HMS Hood wiki page - enter all those stats into Springsharp and see what Springsharp says of the design compared to what is known.

Hi everyone!

First of all: Very well executed drawings, and a good thing to stay modest in size, it perfectly fits the background scenario. If you have only small shipyards with short slipways, that's how your ships look like.

Concerning Springsharp: It is a useful tool if you know its spleens, of which there are many. To my experience, it is very hard to convince Springsharp of fast, long ranged vessels (I once tried USS Iowa, which came out structurally unsound, and I'm sure Springsharp would not like HMS Hood too much either); on the other hand, Springsharp is very (probably too) forgiving if you go easy on speed and range. Thus, if you build a fast ship, you can be quite sure it will work if Springsharp approves, and then some; with slow ships however, I'd advise you to be very careful, because Springsharp will let you get away with more than real-world physics - even if that means to agree with Krakatoa (oooh, the tootache every time I say that...).

But, Krakatoa, there also is no reason to jump into Rowdy's brain with your usual vehemence. If you compare Rowdy's design with certain real-world ships (you have to choose the right ones, of course), it's - while still somewhat optimistic - not too far off the mark. For instance:

http://www.navypedia.org/ships/austrohu ... onarch.htm

The Austrian battleship weighs only 400 tons more than Rowdy's cruiser, has considerably thicker armour plates from bow to Stern and a bulky old-fashioned coal-fueled VTE powerplant for 17 knots. Rowdy's hull is 15 years newer, thus probably much lighter structurally, and if you look at the drawing, the belt is, while quite strong, not very extensive. Add turbines and 100% oil-fueled boilers - both perfectly feasible in 1909 - and take the real pathetic range Rowdy has given his ship, you can IMHO increase speed and freeboard as Rowdy did AND fit such a very heavy armament, although I don't know if he fitted single or twin 254mm turrets. If Invincible's main armament is only two 254mm guns in single turrets, I'd say the design is OK the way it is; with four guns, i'd lengthen it at least by 10 meters and give it 6.000 tons to work with.

Having said that, I don't know what Springsharp says about Invincible's seakeeping (even considering that Springsharp gives slow ships usually hilariously good marks in that subject). With that sort of freeboard, plus cage masts, probably even Springsharp would find it hard to like the design. If she is rated significantly below 1,00, I'd upscale her.

Greetings
GD

Normally, I would ignore this kind of juvenile nonsense, but you're insulting. Perhaps you've been watching our Presidential debates. You really need to learn how to talk to people.

I don't use Springsharp to check the drawing, I use it before I start the drawing. I compute an approximate vital length based on the number of main and secondary guns, their lengths and working radii. From that I can derive a planned waterline length, beam, and draft. Then I can enter that into Springsharp and play with the other variables and see if it produces a plausible design. Quite often it doesn't.

In six years you're only the second member I've come across who has been rude and condescending to me, but it appears you do the same to those who have been here longer than you. Instead of slinging criticism to a community of artists, perhaps you should offer suggestions, which are far less contentious and are more likely to be taken into consideration. Novice only remarked that a design was short, fat and stumpy, and I agreed. You, on the other hand, seems to think he said it was not good fit and tried to castigate me on the shortcomings of Springsharp.

That said, GD noticed that when compared to real capital ships of the time, I wasn't too far off the mark. When I spend hours combing through editions of Jane's and Brasseys' works for design practices of the time period and the fleets of potential adversaries, out-of-print books on period ordnance, search months for data on where Texas exports went since 1845 (I actually found it, too), then you appear rather stupid when you poo-poo a drawing because I use Springsharp as a tool to check the work.

I spend time on this site because I draw as a hobby, and in that time I have taken techniques from several artists here to improve the drawings, GD being one of them. You're not on that list. If you can't comment without being a jerk, then I ask you not to make any further comments until you can be more polite. Then we might have an exchange of ideas instead of insults.

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Redhorse

Current Projects:
Republic of Texas Navy
FD Scale F-14s

1915: Battleship Republic

As the Battlecruiser Invincible was laid down, the Navy decided on its first battleship, and Congress agreed with the funds to build it:



She was too large for Texas Yards, so Republic was built in the United States. Republic is 500' at the waterline, 76' on the beam, and draws 25' of water at normal displacement of 16,286 tons. Main battery is eight 12"/45 guns in four two-gun superfiring turrets. Secondaries are 6"/50s. 3"/50s protect against faster craft that might threaten her. Unlike other battleships of the period, she is not fitted with torpedo tubes.

The armor belt and conning towers are covered in 12" of protection with a 3" armored deck.

Maximum speed was 22 knots, or 11 knots cruising speed. She is the last capital ship designed with the short range of 2650 miles.

By 1918, she also had the wartime modifications common to most capital ships:



Canvas covered her bridges, and additional weather protection fitted to her tops complemented the additional fire control equipment.

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Redhorse

Current Projects:
Republic of Texas Navy
FD Scale F-14s

AWESOME!!!

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MS State Guard - 08 March 2014 - 28 January 2023

The Official IJN Ships & Planes List

#FJB

Nice series of ships you've got going there. The drawings are good and the designs, to my untrained eye, look credible.
I'm in no way well-versed enough in that era's ships to join the debate on the feasibility of your battlecruisers, but I have one fairly noobesque question about them: based on IRL designs, is it accepted practice to have torpedo tubes just above the waterline at the edge of the armor belt? Wouldn't it make loaded torpedoes vulnerable to adverse torpedoes or shells striking just outside the belt?

Also a small remark on drawing style: you could enhance relief by adding shading below the bridge, turret overhangs and inside the barbettes, and maybe improve the integration of the underwater elements grafted on your hull (strakes, shafts) by shifting the edges where they meet the hull background from black to the darker red you've used on the rudder root.

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